Tuesday, April 6, 2010

Winnipeg Counseling: Session 2

I didn't expect a positive response from you on yesterday's post, Winnipeg. When you first confront someone on their issues they rarely respond positively to it. Therefore, I have taken it upon myself to counsel you, Dear Jets fans, and help you get past this. Reading through your comments on my previous blog, some of them made little sense. Some of you even contradicted yourselves. You say you don't hate us then spew more hatred in the same comment? This does not follow a logical train of thought.

Let me clarify something: we as Coyotes fans want you to see that we don't hate you, despite the fact that we've received little, if nothing but hatred from Winnipeg in the past. We want to help you. We hope that one day you get an NHL team back, we support you getting an NHL team back. Just not the Coyotes. We're sorry that it happened in the first place but seeing as many are now new hockey fans because it did happen (myself included) it is a bitter sweet emotion for us. I personally hope that when that day comes, the Coyotes organization is still classy enough to give you back your WhiteOut. Some of my fellow Coyotes fans wouldn't agree with me on that but bottom line is that it's your's, not our's. You started it, the least we could do is give it back to you so that you can enjoy it with the new Jets. The team isn't our's either, you say? Well, I'll let a simple geography and economic lesson address that issue: the team is in Phoenix. Someone bought it and moved it here, wanting it to be a part of Phoenix. When you pay for something, its your's. So at least for the time being, they were given to us as a gift and now belong to this city. 

I also want to use this as an example to you - that type of response is what you must get past. That isn't healthy for you. Take a lesson from the great hockey fans in Quebec - they are at peace with the loss of their beloved team. They have grieved and now moved on. Are they less passionate than you? Certainly not! They are Canadian, are they not? You say all in Canada live and breathe hockey and are better than us Phoenicians. Quebec should qualify then. They even have the online Quebec Nordiques Preservation Society, who's theme is "A tribute to the late, great Quebec Nordiques". I tried to find something honoring the Jets on the internet that didn't focus on bringing them back. But all I found was this. Where is the Winnipeg Jets Preservation Society? Please, point me to it if I've missed it... 

The hatred that is fostered needs to stop. For so long the hatred toward Phoenix went unchecked, so I'm glad that there are fans on message boards who are sticking up for our fair city and giving it back to you, to be quite honest. When I started watching hockey, I was proud of our history. I was proud of the Winnipeg Jets being a part of it. I wanted to meet fans from Winnipeg so that I could discuss our team's time in their city with them and learn more about their history. So I went online, and instead of meeting kind people who wanted to chat about hockey, I met bitter people who wanted to bash me for being a Coyotes fan. Instead of making friends I ran into bitter "ex-girlfriends" intent upon making my life miserable for no reason. Even though I certainly wasn't the one who bought the team and moved them to Phoenix. In fact, I didn't even live in Phoenix back then! 

You say it's not all fans in Winnipeg who are like this? I am one of the most visible Coyotes fans and so far I have met ONE who had something nice to say to me. ONE Jets fan who said "I have always been a Jets fan and I'll always be a fan of the franchise, regardless of the city they reside in." THAT my friends, is true passion. 

The bottom line is, saying that you are "just so passionate" does not give you the right to act like an ass. Nor does it give you the right to attempt to belittle me or any other fan because we would not choose to immerse ourselves in trying to bring the Coyotes back if they were to leave Phoenix. 

Now for your homework Winnipeg: I want you to list 5 things, not related to the Jets, in your beloved city that are a sense of pride for you. 

<3- The Diva


Anonymous said...

I could not have said it any better!!! Such bitter haters.

Anonymous said...

First time I came across this blog. I am a former Winnipeger, but been in Calgary since 2000. I grew up with the Jets, and the fact is, "Diva", that you are a rarity in Phoenix. An apparently real Coyotes fan. Your team was brought to you, indeed, and for 3 or 4 seasons, the fans came out. However, for most, it was a simple novelty. Here are the facts over the last 3 seasons: a total of 7 sell-outs, no playoffs until this season, tickets sold as low as $15 (if not free in a "Win and Get The next Game Free" promotion), other promos such as "All you can eat nights", and regularly selling tickets in prime lower bowl seats at $25. AND STILL RARELY SURPASSED 9,000 in attendance. This is Brutal, this is why a team does NOT belong in Arizona, sorry for the few hundred true hockey fans there.

Now, before the nay-sayers pipe up about "fan support" in Winnipeg for the franchise up to 1996, here are some more facts: Avg. attendance in the NHL was 13,600 in a brutal arena that seated only 15,300 with no luxury suites or concession revenue available to the owners. The new arena seats 15,015, but there are 40+ luxury boxes, plenty of corporate support, all arena revenues available to the owner and plenty of fans who will pay normal NHL ticket prices. From $35 - $225 per seat. (No silly give aways as in Glendale).

Now, I have not read the previous "hate" comments, and I have no hate for you personally. But, the fact remains that NHL hockey does not belong in Phoenix, or many other areas who could care less as a general concensus. The fact also remains that the richest part of the Coyotes's franchise history lies back in Winnipeg with Bobby Hull, Teemu Selanne, and Dale Hawerchuk. In fact, I'd bet my house that there are less than 10 people in Phoenix that know about the World Hockey Association, or that the Jets, perhaps to our chigrin, paid the first million-dollar contract in professional hockey.

Regardless, hockey will be back in Winnipeg in 3 or less years, and most Canadians are hoping it will be the team that left in the first place. In addition, Quebec and Hamilton will also get their team within a 5-year time frame. Fact remains, a billionaire remains tied to Winnipeg that will make this happen because it makes simple business sense. Which is more than can be said for a team in Arizona.

Enjoy the playoffs and the white-outs, it may be the last, and will perhaps make a tiny dent in the $30 or $40 million loss that the rest of the NHL is bucking up for this season.



Anonymous said...

PS - 5 things to be proud of as a Winnipeger
1. The Forks
2. The Blue Bombers (CFL)
3. Efforts of the Public during Crisis (Red River Floods)
4. New Projects such as Football Stadium, MTS Centre, Museum of Human Rights, and Provencher Bridge
5. Interlake Lakes, Beaches and Cottages (Grand Beach rated as top 10 beaches in North America

tada, let me know if you want 5 more


Heather McWhorter said...

Steve, I appreciate your feedback but I wouldn't go betting my house on your "10 people" comment. My circle of hockey friends is bigger than that & they can talk Jets history with the best of them. You say you foster no hatred for us but obviously you do as you go on to tell us that most of Canada wants our team moved. I'd also encourage you to go back and check your figures as they aren't accurate. Or better yet, come to Phoenix for a visit & see for yourself. Our last three home games were sold out & no "silly give aways" were involved. One last thing I'd like to point out - no one in Phoenix will say anything about fan support in Winnipeg. That's not why the team was moved. Even us uneducated hockey fans in Phoenix know that...

Thanks for reading!

CoyoteQ said...

The (some) Winnipegers say they're "passionate". Whatever they need to tell themselves to keep the delusion going I guess. Glenn Close's character in Fatal Attraction was "passionate" too. Passionate is just a word to use instead of irrational and not of sound mind. How many people are in prison and institutions because they were passionate?

Larry_in_PHX said...

Hello Relocationists, Comparing things like attendance figures and sellouts is a silly little exercise. You see, the past matters little in comparison to potential. Soon we will get a more clear picture of the potential here in this huge PHX market. - (Go Yotes!) - Compare this with the realized potential in Winnipeg, which was great for a small town but simply not great enough for the NHL. When the whole town can fit into a minor league arena.... well do the math! Oh yeah, one more thing. Don't give me that crap about it being too hot here or that the climate has anything at all to do with feasibility of hockey in the desert. People come here from all over the world to play golf, and guess what! Grass, much like ice, doesn't occur naturally in the desert either.

Anonymous said...

"They [people of Quebec City] are Canadian, are they not?"

Hmmm... I wouldn't say that out loud in the streets of Quebec City, as it could get you beaten up. :)

I am no friend of the Jets (Canuck fan here), but you do have to understand that in addition to being sad for the fans who lose the team (I was a Grizzlies fan too), relocated teams are a frustrating phenomenon because they skirt the expansion process in a franchise-based league. To this day the insertion of the Quebec Nordiques into the then-Pacific Division as one of the top teams in the league really was a slap in the face not only to the people of Quebec City, but also to those of us whose teams were in that division. Suddenly we're putting up with fans in Denver who win the Stanley Cup in their first year without actually putting any effort or lean years into it. And their fans and press alike would throw this into the faces of long-suffering fans in other markets as though they had somehow 'earned' this or they were 'better' fans.

Due to the Coyotes' lack of success, for the most part, in Phoenix, thankfully you folks have been a lot more humble than the Avalanche backers. But surely you can see why fans may not, generally, like relocation for the injustices it invites. The Hurricanes winning the Cup was also a bit of a razz to Hartford, as was the Baltimore Ravens' Super Bowl so soon after their move.

(And for the exact same logic, I really don't want to see the Coyotes leave Phoenix, by the way, although I guess a return to Winnipeg would be the one way to avoid this phenomenon.)

Anonymous said...

Larry in Phx....FYI population of Winnipeg is 672,000, not 15,015...lol

Math?! You do the math....losses lst year $30 mill, losses this year ????

Math indeed, 19,000 seat arena (or so), usually half empty at least. 15,015 seat arean, Full Always.

Do you guys REALLY believe that after 4 owners, the fifth will enjoy losing money any different?!

too funnuy

Anonymous said...

PS, again, lol.

I've been to Phoenix, yes to GOLF....point made


Anonymous said...

Guess what folks. Winnipeg is getting a team back! on Friday April 8th there will be a news conference which will state that the Coyotes are in fact moving back to Winnipeg for the 2010-2011 season! Yes this is true. I repeat the Jets are coming back!

JJ said...

I will tell you my take on the Coyotes situation and I would love to hear and Phoenix fan's thoughts on this as well as you guys are obviously following this closer than I am.

I believe Jerry Moyes is the one who really screwed this team and put them where they are today.
He intentionally put them in a very similar position to the Jets. He signed an insane arena lease with a 3rd party, receiving no parking concessions and paying a ridiculous amount of rent. I have heard conflicting arguments as to whether they receive any concert and event revenue so if anyone knows for sure id be interested to hear if they do.

Also does anyone else think that it was a huge mistake moving to Glendale instead of trying to work a deal to have an arena built inside of Phoenix? When I was there I stayed in Scottsdale and I was very surprised how far away the arena was from the main population. Now I dont know the area very well but it seemed that Scottsdale was about the closest suburb to the arena and it was damn near an hour away. I am a hell of a hockey fan but I live an hour out of Winnipeg and I know that even I would have a hard time going to every game in the city. I heard the population of Glendale once, I believe it was in the neighborhood of 200,000? correct me if I am wrong on that one.
Does anyone think that may play a big part in the attendance issues and why they have had to discount tickets so much in the past?
If a team is doing good people will make that hour drive to watch them win but if they are in the tank not as many people want to drive that far and spend good money to watch a team lose. If its a 15 minute ride I think more people would be in the stands win or lose no matter what city a team is in.
Again please dont take this as a negative note at all, I loved the jets and I love the coyotes..(o-k I loved the jets more lol)
Again have a great day Phoenix fans and dont lump the majority of the good people of Manitoba in with the rejects and we will do the same with you ;)

JJ said...

"Compare this with the realized potential in Winnipeg, which was great for a small town but simply not great enough for the NHL. When the whole town can fit into a minor league arena.... well do the math!"
Ummmm for the record Winnipegs population is 671,274 not counting any communities outside the perimeter. It is about 750,000 if you count everyone within a half hour of the city. Not being a dick but I dont think people realize what the size of Winnipeg actually is.

The fan on fan pissing matches is frustrating. We do not all think that way in fact its a very small minority but the louder you yell stupid crap the more it sticks in peoples heads that it must be the common thought of everyone. If 30 people smile and say Hi to you on the street and one person flips you off and calls you a prick, which one are you going to remember?
This absolutely goes both ways and it is a shame that a few douchebags from each city make such a lasting impression on both sides.
I sincerely would like to see phoenix keep their team and have Winnipeg get a team as well. I think it would be a pretty kick ass instant team rivalry that could make for some awesome hockey.
Now before I go any further, I would just like to clarify that this not meant to be a fight or bash post etc. I loved this team when they were here and followed them after they left and I have been to Glendale to watch a game. (freakin awesome arena btw)
I would love to hear some Phoenix fans honest take on the crappy position you guys have been put in. I think it is scarily similar to what happened to the franchise when they were in Winnipeg.
For those of you who are not familiar with the actual reasons that the team left I quickly will bring you up to speed.

We had an awful arena that was renovated to squeeze as many extra seats as they could into it in the 70's
This arena was owned by a 3rd party called Winnipeg Enterprises.
WEC owned the arena, got all the concessions and revenues from concerts and events, charged the Jets organization an obscene amount of rent and also took all of the parking revenue.
The Jets got "their share" of ticket sales and outside merchandising and that is it.
As NHL salaries began to go through the roof, the jets organization said we would like a new arena, but we NEED to be allowed to make some more revenue. We would like a SHARE of concessions and parking and more if we can.
WEC was making money hand over fist and said ummmm nope.
In my opinion the blame for the loss of the jets lies squarely on WEC.

That is the long and the short of it.

JJ said...

Oh and to the troll post about the April 8th announcement, yeah there will not be any announcement on the 8th.
So the deal is said and done and the team has been sold to Wpg.......so Jerry Reinsdorf, Ice Edge, City of Glendale etc are all just "pretending" to deal to keep fans in the stands for the playoffs right now only to announce that they will be leaving before the playoffs start?? You should not have drank the kool aid my friend.
I myself do believe that there may be a deal in principle between the NHL and True North as a back up plan if the Phoenix deals do fall apart, BUT they are nowhere near that point. I believe that the parties involved will make something happen and the Coyotes will be in Glendale next year. You are in that minority that makes the rest of us look like idiots.

Heather McWhorter said...

LOL Friday is the 9th

Timmy Hate said...

Vote is on Tuesday to accept Ice Edge or Reinsdorf.

Sorry to say but :P PFFFFFFFTH!!!!

Oh and you do need to know: Press conferences are GENERALLY announced 2-3 days earlier so that the press can...you know...GET THERE!!!!

The hopes and prayers of Winnipeg fans will be put down on Tuesday. Its the humane thing to do. They have suffered for too long with this bitter ball of hatred. I hope you can accept once this deal is done Winnipeg, and instead focus on getting a team by Expansion.

And a few facts: Its now 4 straight sellouts as per the game vs Nashville i believe. Home ice is seeming to be close to selling out (try getting seats in most areas).

puppydog said...

I read the proposals and I think we are screwed. JR wants the city to buy the damn team (more or less) for him. Both proposals want a tax district made which has already been deemed illegal and can not be applied to the Coyotes. We have been faced with the worst possible situation at the worst time I fear. Shit economy and a bastard greedy prick in Jerry Moyes trying to weasel cash. (how did that work for ya Jerry??) Fuck you Moyes. Im done venting. Sorry but reading those proposals really knocked the wind out of my fucking sails and ruined my weekend. I cant see either one coming to fruition.

Anonymous said...

Saw you on Glendale TV last night Ms. Diva via the Winnipeg Free Press live blog about the lease memo vote - and thus heard of your blog here. Your passion for the Yotes (and knowledge of their origins and history in Winnipeg) is very impressive, and your attempts to console us here in the Peg are noteworthy.

It is also great that you are trying to rise above the negativity which many Jets fans will always feel toward Phoenix. We don't really hate you. We just need to hate somebody, because Bettman is too easy of a target (and he never responds to our whining). However, we know he is listening (and likely even using our continued interest to help beef up the Reinsdorf proposal).

In reality, we should be sympathizing with you. We've been where your team appears to be going - into a state of continued uncertainty. It's painful, and it gets worse at the end. We know your Yotes are not the Jets anymore (I think the connection was permanently severed when Curt Keilback was let go in 2007), although it is very hard for us to watch you enjoying our White Out.

I suspect one day will in fact get a team back somehow, and they will be called the Jets. As those days appear to be coming closer, of course we will frothing at the mouth (and seeking to destroy) anyone standing in the way of this potentially happening. We are all just pawns (you too Diva). In reality, these decisions are in the hands of the powerful people with the money and ability to make it happen. Hopefully Reinsdorf can keep the Yotes in Phoenix for awhile - and hopefully our ownership group will find a way to bring the Jets back in some form, sooner or later. Take care, and all the best in the playoffs.

It would be great to see you blow Detroit away; they knocked us out in our last year in the first round. So we wish you the best.


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